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 Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 383
Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:40 pm
Hey, guys. Kethsan Murphy here: Gryffindor, almost fourteen years, second year, ten and three quarters inches, holly, unicorn hair, unbending, blah blah blah. QuestSpirit97 on Pottermore and Kethsan on HEX.

ANYWAYS, you guys all know how Dumbledore gave instructions to Snape from his portrait in the seventh book, right? He could still have conversations and talk from the photograph, even though he was technically dead.

I was wondering why the same thing didn't happen to Lily and James. If the wizard philosophy about pictures is true, then Harry should have been able to talk to his parents when they were dead. He could even have a full relationship with them, and I'm positive that there were many pictures of them.

What are your opinions? I think that J.K. Rowling must have just made a mistake. Must ponder later.

~ Kethsan



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
frequent_vsitor

Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2010 9:37 pm
Posts: 487
Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:46 pm
Here is my opinion:

That there is a difference between wizarding portraits (Dumbledore or Phineas Nigelus [spelling...?] for instance) and wizarding photos (Like Harry's photo album or the pic. of his mum and dad) Portraits like Dumbledore's have extra enchantments and things of that sort, kindof like (if you've read The Lost Hero by Rick Riordan you'll have a pretty good idea of what I'm getting at here.) having most of a god's essence in one place, so they are more powerful in that one place than in other places where only part of them are. So since a portrait is larger and possibly more enchanted than a simple picture then most of a person's "essence" or whatever you want to call it would be in that portrait.

That's just my opinion though, I could be totally wrong.

GREAT question by the way!!!!

-Ninjadragon

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 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
frequent_vsitor

Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:26 am
Posts: 454
Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:31 pm
I think the ongoing theme in the book is how Harry is alone yet still manages to make it. I think that having access to his parents portraits might seem a tad unrealistic. Anyways, only the portraits can talk, and I don't know if Harry's parents got their portraits done.



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
contributor

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:44 am
Posts: 2431
Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:29 pm
I don't think we've met, but I have the upmost respect for other contributors (yeah, you should get used to my formal wording), so...hi, I'm Lestria! Remind me to send you a friend request soon...
It's a great question, but I agree with Ninjadragon99's theory because it makes the most sense. Or maybe J.K. Rowling just skipped that part because it would add an unnecessary element to the Harry Potter books if his parents came back alive.



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
contributor

Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:44 am
Posts: 4093
Fri Oct 07, 2011 10:16 am
I think that it is only portraits who can do that. The fat lady can also speak. But in the photographs in the Daily Prophet, Harry can't speak to them. That's why I think that he can't speak to his parents through the photo album Hagrid gave him.
It was a good question, though!


Message Edited by _Moderator_Elise_ on 10-08-2011 12:22 PM




 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 383
Sat Oct 08, 2011 1:50 am
Hmm. Portraits, eh?

Why couldn't somebody paint a portrait of Lily and James, using multiple pictures of them in photographs for reference?

If I wanted to make some money in the Wizarding World, I would set up an Immortalize-Yourself traveling booth and become a billionaire. Then I would rent my own private island, develop an extremely advanced space program, explore and claim about fifteen new planets, and of course take over the universe.

Just saying.

~ Sam



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
contributor

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 9:05 pm
Posts: 1207
Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:24 pm
I think they had to be speaking while the picture was done to work. For example Dumbledore was probley chatting the whole time while being painted!



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:38 pm
Posts: 485
Sat Oct 08, 2011 8:41 pm
I think that there's two possibilities:
  • There's a difference between portraits and photographs. This would explain why all the other portraits (the other headmasters, Phineas Nigellus, etc.) can talk.
  • It's enchanted to talk. Hey, it's Harry Potter.



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:04 pm
Posts: 4323
Sun Oct 09, 2011 1:48 pm


_Kethsan_ wrote:
Hmm. Portraits, eh?

Why couldn't somebody paint a portrait of Lily and James, using multiple pictures of them in photographs for reference?

If I wanted to make some money in the Wizarding World, I would set up an Immortalize-Yourself traveling booth and become a billionaire. Then I would rent my own private island, develop an extremely advanced space program, explore and claim about fifteen new planets, and of course take over the universe.

Just saying.

~ Sam


Lol, funny, but really practical job.
 
So, I am do here to repeat the whole cheap photos/expensive portraits thing. I feel you on the whole draw-James-et-Lily-from-photos-to-portrait thing, but it may not have happen for two reasons:
 
a) The portraits may be too expensive, and the magic used to make them "alive" may be too advanced. I've just now created the theory that, to make a portrait come "to life", the witch or wizard in it should be alive when drawn. Now, you will say "Dumbledore was dead when his portrait appeared!" and I will say "We don't know when his portrait was draw! Maybe there's a special bonus for the Headmasters of Hogwarts to make their portrait appear out of nowhere to the walls of their old study!" I guess it's logical: all the portraits we saw in the books (the Fat Lady and the past Headmasters) were there for a reason. The Fat Lady was there to eternally open the door to the Gryffindor Tower, while the Headmasters still remained on their study to help the newest generation of Headteachers at Hogwarts. It seems logical, doesn't it?
 
and b) Maybe it'll seem some sort of "reviving the dead-ones" thingy. Maybe it's what I said, that there can't be a wizarding portrait of someone painted after their death. I dunno, but wouldn't it be something like ghosts? Their portraits. Maybe the portraits are just for very special witches and wizards, and, no matter how beloved James and Lily are, they weren't ever mentioned as truly important for the Wizarding society or anything. Dat's all.
 
Really, you should ask this question to Jo, Sam. I'd like to see what her answer'll be: bet everything, she hadn't thought much of it!
 
"It's more fun to make your life your own invention."

~Hippolyte




 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
frequent_contributor

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 6322
Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:07 am
My therory's a bit different:
 
The portraits are not actually the person. Well not in a way. When somebody paints a portrait of a dead person and inchants it so it can speak, it does not mean that person is actually there, or imortal. I think the portrait is instead inchanted with the person's memories and made to act like the person. Made to say what the person would say. Made to deal with situations like that person would. But not the actual person, the physical, living person with a body and brain.
 
Why James and Lily never got them done? Well it seems like quite a difficult process. You basically have to screen on all the memories and traits of the person onto a portrait. I'm also thinking that portraits like that are fairly rare and used for only the most formal things.



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 11:06 pm
Posts: 383
Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:56 am
The best answer, I think, is that the people would have had to have been alive when the portrait was painted in order for the picture magic to work. Lily and James probably just never wanted a portrait painted of themselves. As far as we know, you can only talk to portraits (Grand Staircase, Dumbledore's Office, Grimmauld Place, etc.), but regular pictures are animated yet mute.

Hippolyte: Nice ideas. A) Weren't James and Lily super rich - so rich that James could be unemployed and they could still support a family of three? B) I don't think it's a matter of importance. Could the Fat Lady have been as renowned as Lily Evans? What about all the portraits in Hogwarts? If only "important" people could be immortalized in portraits, wouldn't there have been some kind of civil rights movement in the Ministry of Magic by now?

Thanks for all of the creative answers, guys. Who is Jo?

- Sam



 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_contributor

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:04 pm
Posts: 4323
Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:03 am


_Kethsan_ wrote:
The best answer, I think, is that the people would have had to have been alive when the portrait was painted in order for the picture magic to work. Lily and James probably just never wanted a portrait painted of themselves. As far as we know, you can only talk to portraits (Grand Staircase, Dumbledore's Office, Grimmauld Place, etc.), but regular pictures are animated yet mute.

Hippolyte: Nice ideas. A) Weren't James and Lily super rich - so rich that James could be unemployed and they could still support a family of three? B) I don't think it's a matter of importance. Could the Fat Lady have been as renowned as Lily Evans? What about all the portraits in Hogwarts? If only "important" people could be immortalized in portraits, wouldn't there have been some kind of civil rights movement in the Ministry of Magic by now?

Thanks for all of the creative answers, guys. Who is Jo?

- Sam


*eyebrowraise* Never, EVER doubt the awesomness of Anna's nice ideas! Whatever. I think we actually agree, they could afford their own portrait, but they didn't wanted one. *she's all smart and stuff*As for who is Jo... use ya imagination. JO FROM LITTLE WOMEN, OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!!!!oneone!!!!!!!!!!!! (no. J.K.Rowling.)

You're very welcome, we always have creative ideas, it's because of me, who catched telepathy from my brother and spread it on all those guys here. Yeah, maybe even you! That way, you'll get my awesome way of thinking. No need to thank me, just ignore me, I've just returned from a freaking cold weekend with the Scouts on a small village up the mountains, and I'm so tired I've got to say all those nosense stuff again. But no, I really love it when the Jabberjays come over these boards every once they remember it and make those interesting I-doubt-the-awesomness-of-the-Harry-Potter-books threads. TOTALLY! 
 
Hippolyte, who really needs some sleep now. She can't even see her cursor.




 Re: Lily, James, and Wizard Photographs: A Question
regular_visitor

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:51 am
Posts: 119
Sun Oct 16, 2011 9:38 pm
Thanks that gives me somethin to think about...



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