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 The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:36 pm
Okay, all of you are going to scream at me: VOLDEMORT! Volds! Voldie! Voldy! Tom Riddle Jr.! The Dark Lord!
Uh-uh. It's not that simple.
See, there's plenty of blame to go around. We all know Voldemort gave them the AK, but it took more than just a simple "Avada Kedavra" to kill the Potters - and consequentially create Harry, Voldemort's most powerful enemy.
What I really love about J.K. Rowling's writing is that no situation is ever simple enough. The Potters got the ax because of Snape, but Harry survived...because of Snape. See how things are connected?
Let me rattle up a little chart.

Voldemort (or Tom Riddle Jr.): Caster of the Avadas that killed the Potters, who listened to a prophecy that Snape relayed from Trelawney that made him go after the Potters, agreed when Snape begged for him to spare Lily (therefore creating an enemy in Harry), receiver of information from the Potters' second Secret Keeper Peter Pettigrew, also the most dangerous Dark wizard. 50% blame.

Sybill Trelawney:
Deliverer of the Prophecy that was overheard by Severus Snape which was then relayed to Voldemort, which led to the Potters' deaths. Blame: 8%.

Severus Snape:
Overheard Trelawney's prophecy, which he then relayed to Voldemort, (though only a small part of it, because if he had heard the entire thing Voldemort would not have gone after Harry), but also asked Voldemort to spare Lily's life, leading to the Sacrificial protection that allowed Harry to survive. Blame: 10%.

Bartender:
Saw Severus overhearing Trelawney's prophecy, and chased him out before he could hear the whole thing. Blame: 5%.

Sirius Black:
Original Secret-Keeper of the Potters'. Completely innocent until he relinquished his position to Peter Pettigrew, whom he believed faithful. Blame: 5%.

Peter Pettigrew:
Last Secret-Keeper of the Potters', gave away their position to Voldemort which led to their deaths. Blame: 12%.

Albus Dumbledore:
Listened to Snape as he pleaded for Lily's protection, so had a failsafe Secret Keeper Sirius put to protect the Potters. Perhaps a little overconfident. Blame: 3%.

The Potters:
Too overconfident as they cooed around Harry, believed in the power of the Fidelius Charm, were unarmed when Voldemort stormed in. Blame: 5%.

The Longbottoms:
Perhaps they seemed too harmless to be targeted by Voldemort, therefore that set Voldemort after the Potters. Blame: 2%.

So do you agree? The above chart adds up to 100%...Read, Rate, and Review!

-catchingfire



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_vsitor

Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:17 pm
Posts: 498
Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:06 pm
wow. you really did you're homework!
personally, i think Sirius should be given less blame and Peter more. but, well, like you said. 50% Voldy!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_contributor

Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:15 pm
Posts: 6845
Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:27 pm


_Katie_Moderator_ wrote:
Wow!

Agreed!
 
 
 
Thats some crazy detalied chart you've got going there! You deffinatly brought up a lot of points I'd never even thought of before!
You're totally right though its hard to blame just one person when so many were involved.
 
Kudos to you for coming up with all this! :-D
 
 
:]
-?kreacher
currently reading: A Series of Unfortunate Events: The Slippery Slope; The Clique: My Little Phony



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
contributor

Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:58 pm
Posts: 94
Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:43 pm
Like Katie...........Wow!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_vsitor

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 459
Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:55 pm
And you know, that bartender was most likely none other than Aberforth Dumbledore if this meeting just so happened to be at Hog's Head. If Three Broomsticks, than probably not.
 
Do you know where it was?
 
 
 
Hobbits Forever!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:54 pm
...you're probably all backing away from me slowly. :) Don't worry, I get that feeling too.

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!




 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
contributor

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:19 pm
Posts: 825
Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:54 pm
Uh, wow. Good with math aren`t you?? Well, it`s really interesting. It`ll be really cool if you made a circle graph of that!!!


Peace. Love. VAMPIRES!!!

M




 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:16 pm
Posts: 2
Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:20 pm
Wow! I say to take a little off Sirius and give it to Pettigrew. And are the Longbottoms really to blame?? Other than that, agree completely!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
visitor

Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:03 pm
Posts: 107
Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:59 pm
Sirius, longbottoms, and the potters had nothing to do with it



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
regular_visitor

Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:12 pm
Posts: 244
Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:09 pm
Wow good job.



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
regular_visitor

Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2008 10:42 am
Posts: 195
Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:32 pm
Geez, that's awesome. We're learning about percents and finding percents in math, but that's, well, awesome! (Sorry got no other words)



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:21 pm
The reason why I'm blaming everybody is whether intentional or not, that's the beauty of JKR's writing. Everybody can be blamed. And all that blame could be attributed to the Gaunts and the Riddles, the Potters and the Evans, the Snapes and the Princes, even the Dumbledores and the Longbottoms. Technically, everyone in the world is to blame, but I don't want to get into .0000000000000001%s, so please don't make me. :)

Why put so much blame to Sirius? I think even if it was unintentional, yes, Sirius did have a part. He relinquished the Fidelius to Peter. And even if he didn't mean to have Peter betray him, he should have known that in times of war you can't trust people...plus, he didn't trust himself, whom he should have. But we can't have shouldawouldacouldas here because, as you can see, everything is linked. Even if we take out Sirius's end, something might have happened otherwise. Sirius could have died. He could have let slip where the Potters were. James could have confided in someone else. Anything. Perhaps the Fidelius Charm could be broken, see?

Why I'm blaming Trelawney: Yes, it's true she didn't mean it. She was only delivering a job interview, and it slipped out. But it's the same logic I used for Sirius...unintentional, yet fatal. And in complicated things like this, it does matter. Perhaps even if she did not deliver the prophecy, someone else might have. Maybe Voldemort just targeted the Potters in a fit of rage. We'll never know.

I'm glad to see such post traffic! I usually hang around the Hunger Games board. Really, you have to read those books, they rock.

"Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil."

catchingfire OUT



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:38 am

_Katie_Moderator_ wrote:
You write very well and have wonderful explanations for your reasoning. Do I see law in your future?? haha



_catchingfire_ wrote:
The reason why I'm blaming everybody is whether intentional or not, that's the beauty of JKR's writing. Everybody can be blamed. And all that blame could be attributed to the Gaunts and the Riddles, the Potters and the Evans, the Snapes and the Princes, even the Dumbledores and the Longbottoms. Technically, everyone in the world is to blame, but I don't want to get into .0000000000000001%s, so please don't make me. :)

Why put so much blame to Sirius? I think even if it was unintentional, yes, Sirius did have a part. He relinquished the Fidelius to Peter. And even if he didn't mean to have Peter betray him, he should have known that in times of war you can't trust people...plus, he didn't trust himself, whom he should have. But we can't have shouldawouldacouldas here because, as you can see, everything is linked. Even if we take out Sirius's end, something might have happened otherwise. Sirius could have died. He could have let slip where the Potters were. James could have confided in someone else. Anything. Perhaps the Fidelius Charm could be broken, see?

Why I'm blaming Trelawney: Yes, it's true she didn't mean it. She was only delivering a job interview, and it slipped out. But it's the same logic I used for Sirius...unintentional, yet fatal. And in complicated things like this, it does matter. Perhaps even if she did not deliver the prophecy, someone else might have. Maybe Voldemort just targeted the Potters in a fit of rage. We'll never know.

I'm glad to see such post traffic! I usually hang around the Hunger Games board. Really, you have to read those books, they rock.

"Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil."

catchingfire OUT





Thanks, Katie, but I stink at Law. I've never been on Speech and Debate (mostly because I want to continue a music career; to take two electives you have to take seventh period PE, and I don't want to stay after school) and my friends think I'm a little psychotic. Am I? :)
In my mind, overconfidence is fatal. We're talking about a war here, not an ax-murderer case. Actually, we are talking about an ax-murderer case, but it's in the context of a full blown war. Normally, such circumstances would have at most led to the loss of an expensive family heirloom or something like that (Peter telling some random Muggle burglar that the Potters owned a Time Turner, etc.) but because this is a war, we have much fatal consequences. I'm being so harsh because you just don't trust that many people in a war, so that's pretty much a crime. It's a given that Sirius and Trelawney and Dumbledore and the Longbottoms were pretty much innocent, but they still carry a bit of the blame because they were much too overconfident. I think Dumbledore should have kept the Potters at Hogwarts (lots of people say that was the safest place) because he himself heard the prophecy.
Which leads us to a new question: Did Dumbledore, knowing that the death of the Potters could bring about the end of Voldemort, allow him to kill them?

Let the jury decide.

Message Edited by _Katie_Moderator_ on 01-08-2011 07:05 AM




 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_vsitor

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:39 pm
Posts: 971
Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:32 pm
You've really given thought to this...! :smileyvery-happy:



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
regular_contributor

Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 4:51 pm
Posts: 2466
Sat Jan 08, 2011 7:29 pm


_Starfall09_ wrote:
Take away the 2% from the Longbottom's and add it to Dumbledore...Also I don't get why Trelawney is blamed at all. She was a messenger, the prophecy was completely out of her control. It's not like she even knew she was delivering it in the pub...
 
Actually....this whole things seems waaaaay too deep to me. You might as well start blaming Voldemort's mother for giving birth to him to begin with.
 
Really I think the fault is 100% Voldemort's. He has free will. He chose to kill the Potters, no one else did.
 
......Though I do believe Snape and Peter are accomplices and are to blame for Voldemort learning of the prophecy and gaining access to the Potter home. But not for the actual death of the Potter's.


I totally agree with you((:



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_contributor

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 6322
Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:26 pm


_catchingfire_ wrote:
...you're probably all backing away from me slowly. :) Don't worry, I get that feeling too.

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!



I'm amazed catchingfire, I'd never think of you as some freak, this is pure genius!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:02 am


_Twinktoes87_ wrote:


_catchingfire_ wrote:
...you're probably all backing away from me slowly. :) Don't worry, I get that feeling too.

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!



I'm amazed catchingfire, I'd never think of you as some freak, this is pure genius!


Hey, I know you! (You said that people misspell your name as TwinkleToes, right?)

And, hey, genius is overdoing it a little...*smile*

-catchingfire

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
frequent_contributor

Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 6322
Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:14 pm


_catchingfire_ wrote:


_Twinktoes87_ wrote:


_catchingfire_ wrote:
...you're probably all backing away from me slowly. :) Don't worry, I get that feeling too.

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!



I'm amazed catchingfire, I'd never think of you as some freak, this is pure genius!


Hey, I know you! (You said that people misspell your name as TwinkleToes, right?)

And, hey, genius is overdoing it a little...*smile*

-catchingfire

Knowledge is power and power corrupts, so study hard and be evil!


Yesh, I'm "Twinkletoes" , okay maybe its super mega genius, but its really amazing :)



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
contributor

Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:32 pm
Posts: 772
Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:05 pm
I agree with everything except the Longbottoms. It wasn't their fault at all.
BUT....
SUPER CREATIVE!

-dancingjalepeno



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
regular_contributor

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:10 pm
Posts: 1168
Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:01 am
OMG! That's awesome. I can't believe how much time that probably took you! I never thought about who could've been involved in the Potters' killings. The Longbottoms, I'm not so sure about... I mean they couldn't really help it, being tortured by Crucio, it's not like they wanted to be a part their friend's death. Well, actually, since they're crazy, they're probably not even aware of it! But, you are right that they were involved in it, like it or not. Sirius is like that, too. James was his best friend and I'm sure he didn't want any part of it, but things happen, and Sirius was a part of it.




       

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 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
contributor

Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:58 pm
Posts: 186
Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:02 pm
catchingfire, you're famous now! :) You're in the Stacks Blast newsletter! :)

Wow. This is pretty detailed. I'll put what I think...

Voldie: 60 percent. It's HE that killed them!

Sybill: 2 percent. Not her fault that the prophecies just spew out.

Snape: 12 percent. He told Voldie!

Bartender: 2 percent. You would chase a dark, creepy stranger out of your inn, too!

Sirius: 3 percent. Didn't trust himself to keep the promise...good character trait.

Pettigrew: 20 percent. Duh! Told on them!

Dumbledore+Potters: 1 percent. Not really their fault.

Longbottoms? Voldy didn't even KNOW that it could have been Neville, right?



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Sat Jan 22, 2011 5:15 pm


_fantasyreader123_ wrote:
catchingfire, you're famous now! :) You're in the Stacks Blast newsletter! :)

Wow. This is pretty detailed. I'll put what I think...

Voldie: 60 percent. It's HE that killed them!

Sybill: 2 percent. Not her fault that the prophecies just spew out.

Snape: 12 percent. He told Voldie!

Bartender: 2 percent. You would chase a dark, creepy stranger out of your inn, too!

Sirius: 3 percent. Didn't trust himself to keep the promise...good character trait.

Pettigrew: 20 percent. Duh! Told on them!

Dumbledore+Potters: 1 percent. Not really their fault.

Longbottoms? Voldy didn't even KNOW that it could have been Neville, right?


I....I am?!
What's the STACKS blast newsletter anyway? Sounds a little pyrotechnic to me...I haven't subscribed yet. Could you send me a copy? *grin*

Hm...good point. But good character traits often get you killed....(Snape.)



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
regular_visitor

Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:22 pm
Posts: 60
Sun Jan 23, 2011 9:06 pm
You got it pretty good, just some things should be changed:
 
Voldemort: 60%. He had a choice. He decided to be a murderer. Bad choice.
 
Sybil Trelawney: 1%, SHE DIDN'T KNOW IT WOULD HAPPEN!
 
Snape: 9%, he didn't realize what Voldemort was doing at the time. Snape thought he would have power and stuff like that. Then he realized what Voldemort was doing, so he wished he took it back. Plus, he hated James. Haven't we all wanted someone dead because we hated them so much? I think so.
 
Bartender: NONE! He chased him out in time! If he wasn't chased, it could've been worse!
 
Sirius: 6%, He thought Pettigrew was faithful, and he didn't even trust himself. Can't blame him.
 
Peter: 23%, HE TOLD HIM WHERE THEY LIVED!
 
Dumbledore: 1%, he was the one who brough Trelawney in the pub, but he didn't do anything else.
 
Potters: NONE! For one thing, they thought they were safe because they didn't know ANYTHING about the prophecy. By the time they did, they DIED. You shouldn't blame anything on them, except for living to die.
 
Longbottoms: 1%, Neville was the second choice, but wasn't the chosen one. So that led to Harry. Nothing much though. How was he supposed to know about the prophecy? He was the EXACT same age as Harry, which would be about 1 & 1/2.
 
Also, how would hearing the whole prophecy change Voldemort's mind? I haven't read the series in over a year, so I forget.



 Who really killed the Potters?

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:16 pm
Posts: 2
Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:41 am
Well if you read the sorcerer's stone on chapter like five you would see that only Voldemort killed James and Lilly!



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
rookie_visitor

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:31 pm
Posts: 20
Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:07 pm
Cool! Here's mine:
Voldy:  delivered the AK. Blame: 60 percent
Peter: Gave secret to Voldy. Blame: 20 percent.
Bartender: Chased out Snape before he could hear whole thing. Blame: 7 percent.
Siruis: convinced Lily and James to switch secretkeepers. Blame: 3 perent.
Lily/James Potter: rejected Dumbledore's offer to be secret keeper.  Blame: 5 percent.
Voldy's mom: Enchanted Tom Riddle Sr, and refused to fix herself with magic for her son, thus giving him a proper home. Blame: 3 percent.
Voldy's Dad: Left Voldy's mum and son. Didn't ever look back. Blame: 2 percent.



 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?

Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:33 am
Posts: 2
Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:40 pm
i kinda have to agree, except for the part abt. the Longbottoms. um, since when did the Longbottoms have to do w/ nething? (xcept 4 the fact that it couldve been neville the prophecy was talking abt.) 
but now looking at the story, u r kinda right. it really is snape's fault, also. but seriously? trelawney's fault? she didnt choose to have the prophecy. and u r so rite abt. harry's parents--they put too much trust into the fidelius charm.
but other than that, i totally agree. after all, freedom of speech, rite?





 Re: The HP Famed Name Blame Game! Who really killed the Potters?
N/A

Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:08 pm
Posts: 258
Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:47 pm
Re: to the "you might as well blame Voldemort's mom"

I can scientifically explain this one. Because we mostly came from common ancestors (eukaryotic unicellular organisms), it's safe to assume everyone has approximately the same amount of ancestors. Therefore, if I say that Voldemort has 50% blame, that means Voldemort, his parents, his grandparents, etc. all of his direct ancestors. The same could be said of Snape, Sirius, the Potters, et cetera. Mathematically they all have approximately the same number of direct ancestors. Well, seeing the Marvolo family history (inbreeding, for example) Voldemort's number of ancestors may vary. But I'd still say they're around the same number.

Whoa, revisiting a ten-month-old thread. Time flies. =D

~catchingfire

"If you understand the concept in your mind, then put it into action." - Eiki Shiki (Xanadu), Phantasmagoria of Flower View.



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